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Best Panel PC Options for Implementing Ignition as a SCADA Platform

Question:

Hello everyone! We have been diving into Ignition and completing the courses on Inductive University. The features and capabilities of Ignition are really impressive, especially the user-friendly interface and tools available. Considering this, we are contemplating deploying Panel PCs to clients with Ignition installed to gauge their interest in using it as their SCADA platform. What do you think about utilizing Ignition as a HMI for a local facility? Do you consider it excessive for a localized application? Additionally, do you have any recommendations for trusted models or brands of Panel PCs? I am not very familiar with them, so I would appreciate any insights on what the top choices are in the industry.

Top Replies

I have not yet utilized Ignition. Currently, I have 15 Advantech PanelPCs deployed in the field, running a custom Python-based quasi-SCADA program. The oldest models in use are the PPC-6020, followed by the PPC6120, with the newest being the PPC6121. While the older models can function with any 24V power supply, the newer ones may encounter issues with certain power supplies. It is advisable to order the recommended power supply from Advantech at the time of purchase to avoid complications. Over the course of 5 years, there have been a total of 3 failures, with two instances occurring at the same location and production line, likely due to poor power quality. Addressing the issue by replacing the power supply has successfully prevented any further failures. The PanelPCs have proven to be durable, even when operating in enclosed spaces without adequate cooling. These devices are situated in non-climate-controlled environments along the Gulf Coast of Texas, where ambient temperatures can exceed 100°F. Despite the challenging conditions, the PanelPCs have demonstrated resilience and remained unaffected by the extreme heat within their enclosures.

Utilizing full-scale Ignition may not be necessary for a local HMI system. While I have not yet explored Edge, my understanding is that it caters to this specific need. Ignition offers recommendations for Panel PCs and IPCs that are well-suited for Edge applications. Initially, we utilized Ignition for data logging and SQL, using Excel to generate reports from the SQL server. When faced with the need to upgrade our PLC5 system from RSView 32, opting for the unlimited Vision Module proved to be a cost-effective solution compared to upgrading to FactoryTalk View SE. This decision has allowed our system to evolve gradually by adding modules as required. After implementing the Vision Module, we incorporated Raspberry Pi 4s to create production boards placed behind large televisions throughout the plant, reducing costs significantly. Additionally, a Dynics resistive touchscreen IPC running Ubuntu with the Vision Client Launcher monitors inventory in a challenging environment. Transitioning to Perspective has further streamlined operations by replacing paper documents with digital versions accessible on iPads, enhancing efficiency and reducing downtime. The decision to invest in Ignition was influenced by existing usage in the plant and the presence of practical applications across our operations. Despite reinvesting in server upgrades and applications, the overall savings on Rockwell purchases have far surpassed the initial investment. This demonstrates the value of building upon existing foundations and leveraging technology to drive continuous improvement and cost savings.

Valuable insights! It seems like we're taking a reverse approach to this. While Ignition may not be the most straightforward choice for local HMI, showcasing its effectiveness locally could lead to easier adoption for SCADA integration. By linking the Ignition server to established Gateways in the field, we can streamline the process. I have some experience with older Vision clients connecting to an Ignition Server, but I'm now exploring the more advanced Perspective version, which appears to be very impressive. Developing projects in Perspective will facilitate seamless SCADA integration on mobile devices. Since the application will be for outdoor facilities, we require durable screens capable of withstanding extreme temperature variations. I will explore the options for Advantech panels. Thank you!

I have recently switched to using Ignition Edge over traditional local HMI systems. In most cases, opting for an industrial PC, touchscreen, and Ignition Edge license is more cost-effective than purchasing a larger PanelView Plus, unless the HMI needs are minimal and only require a small screen (<6"). Additionally, acquiring the former hardware is typically quicker than the latter option. Ignition offers a superior design and user experience compared to other HMIs I have utilized. An added benefit is the potential to upsell a full SCADA server to the customer if they are satisfied with Ignition Edge, allowing for seamless integration. This is a feature that would be challenging to achieve with FTView ME and SE.

ASF mentioned that they have started utilizing Ignition Edge instead of traditional local HMI systems. They find that unless the HMI requirements are minimal and only need a small screen size of less than 6 inches, it is more cost-effective to purchase an industrial PC, touchscreen, and Ignition Edge license. This option proves to be more economical compared to buying a larger PanelView Plus. Additionally, obtaining the former hardware is quicker than acquiring the latter. ASF also highlights the ease of design and usability of Ignition compared to other HMI software. They note that Ignition provides an opportunity to upsell to customers by offering a full SCADA server for the site, seamlessly integrating with the Edge instance. This capability is not easily achieved with FTView ME and SE. In conclusion, Ignition's design features are impressive, while PanelViews are criticized for their limitations in communication protocols. What HMI do you prefer using? Do you operate them in diverse environments, including climate-controlled plants?

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PVPs can communicate with other processors through Kepware. I have experience setting up a 10" PVP on a Modicon 984 PLC to replace an old DL20 dataliner in the past. I concur with your overall sentiment. I utilize Advantech touchscreens and compact fanless DIN rail mount industrial PCs that run on Windows 10 IoT. The majority of my clientele belongs to the food & beverage industry, so the enclosures are usually situated in climate-controlled environments. Thus, managing climate for my Operator Interface Terminals (OITs) has never been necessary.

ASF mentioned that they are transitioning from using local HMI's to Ignition Edge. They find that for minimal HMI requirements with a small screen size (<6"), it is more cost-effective to purchase an industrial PC, touchscreen, and Ignition Edge license compared to a PanelView Plus. Additionally, they find Ignition easier to work with and design than other HMI software. One advantage of using Ignition Edge is the potential to seamlessly integrate with a full SCADA server if the customer decides to upgrade. They also mention the challenges of transitioning from Ignition Edge to the full Ignition system, specifically in terms of historian database connectivity. I have experience with full Ignition Gateway installations but have not yet worked with Ignition Edge. A customer is interested in starting with Edge before moving to the full Ignition system. A senior Ignition developer mentioned that Edge may not be easily transferable to the full system and has limitations on historian database connectivity unless data is moved to a Gateway. This raises concerns about the efficiency of using Edge as an intermediate step. Can you provide insights on your experience with Ignition Edge and how it differs from a full installation?

ASF mentioned that they are transitioning to using Ignition Edge instead of traditional local HMI systems. In most cases, it is more cost-effective to invest in an industrial PC, touchscreen, and Ignition Edge license for HMI needs, particularly when the requirements are minimal and involve a small screen size (<6 inches). Additionally, acquiring the necessary hardware for Ignition Edge is typically quicker than obtaining a PanelView Plus of decent size. The user also highlighted the superior design and functionality of Ignition compared to other HMI software options. One key advantage of opting for Ignition Edge is the potential for upselling a full SCADA server to customers who appreciate the platform, enabling seamless integration with the existing Edge instance. This level of flexibility and scalability is not easily achievable with alternatives like FTView ME and SE. In my view, the cost of ten full Ignition licenses is outweighed by the benefits it offers when compared to a PanelView system.

In my experience, as I have been primarily focusing on full Ignition Gateway installations, I recently had a customer who wanted to transition gradually by starting with Ignition Edge before moving on to the full version. However, after seeking advice on the Ignition forums, a senior developer mentioned that Edge may not be seamlessly portable to the full Ignition version and that there are limitations in terms of historian database connectivity unless the data is transferred to a Gateway. Despite this concern, I believe that transitioning from Edge to the full version is possible. When setting up an Edge device or HMI, it essentially becomes a Gateway. When the time comes to consolidate all the information onto a larger server, you can easily connect your server to all your Gateways and migrate your tags to the main server. This allows you to manage Historians and Alarm Pipelines either on the remote gateways or have the server handle the data processing to reduce the load on the Gateways. Ignition offers a great deal of flexibility in programming and network setup, making it feasible to transition from Edge to the full version. For instance, in our lab, we successfully linked a panel PC running Ignition Edge to an AWS Ignition Server for testing purposes with ease. Our goal is to encourage customers to use Perspective for local HMI, so that if they decide to transition to a full Ignition setup, the Perspective work is already completed, simplifying the process of configuring the server and transferring assets created locally.

ASF mentioned that PVPs have the capability to communicate with other processors through Kepware. I have personally utilized this feature in the past when I integrated a 10" PVP with a Modicon 984 PLC to replace an outdated DL20 dataliner. While I echo your overall sentiment, I recall exploring this option for communication with Siemens PLCs. We were seeking a unified platform to streamline our processes but hesitated due to the additional cost of Kepware licenses per HMI, especially compared to the hardware expenses we were already incurring. On the other hand, Siemens MPs came pre-equipped to support AB PLCs without any extra fees. However, we faced hardware issues with premature failures that made us reconsider our choice. Despite the ease of communication and user-friendly software compared to View Studio, we encountered setbacks that made us reconsider our decision. Is this still the current scenario?

ASF mentioned that PVP's can communicate with other processors using Kepware. They have set up a 10" PVP on a Modicon 984 PLC in the past to replace an old DL20 dataliner. In general, they use Advantech touchscreens and miniature fanless DIN rail mount industrial PCs running Windows 10 IOT. Their primary clients are in the food & beverage industry, so the enclosures are usually in climate-controlled environments. They have never had to specifically manage climate for their OIT's due to this. They have not had experience with Kepware and would prefer if the screen natively supported it. While Beijer HMI's are not the best, they have completed projects involving exchanging data between Allen Bradley and Total Flow systems, finding it very convenient to display information on the same screen easily. Red Lion screens are known for their sleek design and ability to manage multiple controllers and data exchange effortlessly, although they have not had the chance to work with them yet.

When setting up an Edge device or HMI, it essentially becomes a Gateway. You can easily connect your server to all Gateways to centralize data and share tags. There is a lot of flexibility in programming and network setup in Ignition, making it possible to merge projects developed in Edge into the primary gateway. This means that Vision screens, scripts, tag providers, etc., can all be integrated into the central Gateway repository, eliminating the need for transactions between multiple gateways. This seamless integration ensures that the Edge project is not left as an orphan with its own gateway. So, the data can be centralized without any issues, making the setup process smooth and efficient for users.

The standalone nature of the edge system makes it self-sufficient and independent from the central gateway. While there are both advantages and disadvantages to this setup, an edge system can still store and transmit tag history to a main database similar to an Ignition gateway. However, the edge system is limited to storing data for a maximum of two weeks. Additionally, the edge gateway can be configured as a remote tag provider, allowing it to read data from a local PLC and send it to the central gateway. While I have limited experience in connecting edge instances to central gateways, I am currently working on a project involving a standalone machine with an unlimited Ignition license. By utilizing an Ignition Edge license, the machine can operate independently without relying on the site network or server rack while still being able to transfer tag data for analysis and monitoring.

When using the Ignition Edge system, the edge device operates independently from the central gateway to ensure self-sufficiency. While there are advantages and disadvantages to this setup, an edge system has the capability to store and forward tag history to a main database. However, it is limited to two weeks of data storage when operating in isolation. Additionally, the edge gateway can be configured as a remote tag provider, allowing for data to be read from a local PLC and then transmitted to the central gateway. This setup is particularly useful for standalone machines with an unlimited Ignition license. One consideration is the storage of data - is the two weeks of data stored in SQL or in an edge file repository? Furthermore, can the edge application only be modified within that specific box? Portability to the centralized gateway is essential for benefits such as backups and redundancy. Lastly, is the edge designer environment similar to Vision, or is there a separate interface to learn? Understanding these aspects can help optimize the integration of edge instances with a central gateway for enhanced monitoring and control capabilities.

The data is stored in the internal historian of the edge gateway. I have not installed a SQL server on an Edge gateway before. The edge application can be modified from any connected machine, similar to how the designer can be accessed from any machine connected to an Ignition server with the project. There are gateway administration modules available for managing tasks like backing up edge nodes, although I have not used them personally. I primarily use Perspective for edge panels, but Vision can also be used based on preference. It seems to be a choice between developing in Vision with a 1x local client and 1x remote client, or developing in Perspective with a two-session license.

ASF mentioned that data is typically stored in the internal historian of the edge gateway. They have not personally installed a SQL server on an Edge gateway before. It is possible to modify the edge app using any connected machine, similar to accessing the designer tool on any other Ignition server containing the project to be edited. Gateway administration modules may also be utilized for tasks such as managing backups of edge nodes. ASF primarily uses Perspective for edge panels, but notes that Vision can also be used as an alternative. Developing in Vision provides one local client and one remote client, while developing in Perspective requires a two-session license.

Robertmee inquired about the similarities between the Edge Designer environment and Vision. Is there another variation to learn? In reality, the Edge Designer environment is quite different from Vision. Transitioning from Vision to Perspective can be an adjustment, as I personally experienced. Inductive University offers an insightful Elective course that guides you through designing and building a simulator program in Perspective. This course helps you grasp the various features and tools available in Perspective.

After trying out Vision, transitioning to Perspective was definitely a unique experience for Mullet. He found that Inductive University's Elective course provided a helpful guide in designing and building a simulator program in Perspective, covering various features and tools to enhance understanding. Mullet also shared some familiarity with Perspective, wondering if Edge development is exclusively focused on this platform.

robertmee mentioned being familiar with Perspective in relation to Edge development. Is Perspective the sole focus for Edge development? I believe it may be, but I cannot say for certain.

According to information on the Ignition Edge website, users have the option to select between Perspective (2 sessions) or Vision (1 local client, 1 remote client) as their visualization system for Edge Panel. Click here to learn more about this feature.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

FAQ: FAQs:

Answer: 1. Is Ignition a suitable platform for implementing SCADA at a local facility? - Answer: Yes, Ignition is a robust platform with user-friendly interfaces and tools, making it a suitable choice for SCADA applications at local facilities.

FAQ: 2. Are Panel PCs a recommended option for deploying Ignition as a SCADA platform?

Answer: - Answer: Yes, Panel PCs can be a convenient and integrated solution for running Ignition as a SCADA platform, offering a compact and all-in-one solution for control and monitoring.

FAQ: 3. Can you provide recommendations for trusted models or brands of Panel PCs for running Ignition?

Answer: - Answer: While specific recommendations may vary based on individual needs and preferences, some top choices in the industry for Panel PCs include models from brands like Advantech, Beckhoff, and Siemens. Conducting thorough research and considering factors like performance, durability, and compatibility with Ignition are essential when selecting a Panel PC.

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