If you're dealing with touchscreen issues, Red Lion offers replacement films for certain models, which could be worth considering to improve functionality with gloves. Additionally, cardosocea's suggestion of attaching a stylus or pen beside the screen is an excellent alternative. To prevent misplacement or theft, secure the stylus with a cable tether.
Exploring the New PV5500 Series: Is the PLC Restricted to a Single PV5500 per CPU, or Conversely, Just One PLC per PV5500?
rdrast stated: Opt for Ignition or Ignition Edge on any preferred hardware platform. Click to learn more... How effective is Ignition Edge in real-world applications? Is it competitively priced?
Has Red Lion expanded to offer three distinct lines of panel interfaces? I recall when they only provided the G3 series, which was quite popular among users. What are the key differences between these three product lines?
According to harryting, Red Lion now offers four distinct lines of panel interfaces. They're well-known for the G3 series, which is rugged yet not as sleek, with its wide studded bezel that requires more effort to mount. However, it remains a fast and feature-rich option.
The Graphite series stands as the premium model, combining elegance and durability. It matches the G3 in performance capabilities but goes further by supporting control modules and expandable I/O modules. It’s compatible with both Crimson 3.0 and the advanced Crimson 3.1 software.
Previously known as the entry-level option, the Kadet series is being phased out. Though it programs with Crimson 3.0, it lacks features like data logging, email, and web browsing, and it's not manufactured by Red Lion. Taking its place, the CR1000 series mirrors the Kadet’s look in its smaller version and is made with a plastic casing, unlike the aluminum Graphite. Similar to the Kadet, the CR1000 does not offer data logging, SQL compatibility, or web-related functions but includes an SD card slot for effortless "cloning" during replacements.
Serving as a more advanced option, the CR3000 series includes data logging, web browsing, FTP sync, SQL sync, and email capabilities. The CR series models require programming with Crimson 3.1, which shares many similarities with version 3.0 but without an emulator and enhanced with modern graphics and textures.
For more in-depth information, visit the official Red Lion page: http://www.redlion.net/products/industrial-automation/hmis-and-panel-meters/hmi-operator-panels.
Push-button switches or rubber-encased controls are essential for operators wearing bulky or damp-resistant gloves. For handling analog values, hand wheels are ideal. Enhancing interface efficiency becomes crucial when operators are gloved. It's advisable to have a dedicated operator station for those not wearing gloves, such as administrative personnel or engineers, to prevent crossover usage. Remember, it's not just water you need to be wary of; always verify the compatibility of materials used. You haven't specified which features are prioritized. Consider the benefits a sleek, reliable, and stable Human-Machine Interface (HMI) offers the company. Are they equipped to support operating systems, such as those needed for ignition edge setups? Does the open-source model align with the company’s ethos? Is hardware cost a bigger concern than system maintainability? Evaluate the impact of any potential unplanned or planned downtime. Will a Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition (SCADA) system be implemented, or should the HMI handle additional functions like sending emails, providing remote access, logging data, and storing wiring diagrams and manuals? If the company frequently replicates similar systems, they might prefer assurance that an HMI program can operate correctly with minimal adjustments, even when downloaded from another computer. Would they prefer a budget-friendly $300 HMI loaded with features that can be easily replaced, or a $3000 unit with fewer features but lower failure probability, although replacement comes at a higher cost? Assess the Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) from vendors' datasheets to objectively gauge reliability rather than depending solely on their marketing claims.
Thank you all for your valuable feedback. To provide more clarity, we will integrate a SCADA system (specifically, Ignition). However, deploying a complete PC-and-touchscreen setup might not be practical or cost-effective in every area, particularly where operators only need to adjust a few timers, initiate operations, or review alarm details. Consequently, I'm exploring suitable HMI solutions for these specific applications. The priority is not a feature-rich system, but one that is durable, dependable, and budget-friendly.
Regarding usage with cold, wet gloves, the situation isn't as dire as I initially described. I anticipate that operators will mostly remove or dry their gloves before interacting with the HMI. It's not a process where gloves are constantly in contact with the solution during each cycle. Occasionally, an operator might be handling tasks in the tank and then need to assess an alarm on the HMI. Therefore, it's crucial that the HMI can endure incidental contact without damage, such as bubbling or cracking. If operators must dry their gloves or remove them due to reduced dexterity while using the HMI, that's acceptable as long as the equipment isn't harmed.
Considering open-source options is viable; however, solutions like AdvancedHMI haven't fully met the requirements. With a comprehensive SCADA system running in the background, we simply need a compact, standalone HMI to serve as a local control interface for smaller segments. A full PC-and-touchscreen is excessive for this purpose.
Currently, system downtime isn't a significant issue. The potential loss is mostly confined to any product in process that cannot be salvaged if operations are interrupted. They aren't facing exorbitant downtime costs per hour yet, but this could change with successful expansion into additional facilities, possibly requiring stricter timelines for product processing.
As for creating numerous similar systems, that's the goal, although they are still prototyping. Balancing cost minimization to refine the system with choosing hardware that supports long-term scalability if the prototype succeeds is crucial.
User "rdrast" mentioned that you can utilize Ignition or Ignition Edge on any compatible hardware. I just discovered Ignition Edge and, after a quick online search, I'm intrigued and cautiously optimistic about its potential. If you've used this software, could you provide a brief overview of your experiences with it? Your insights would be greatly appreciated!
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We explored using Ignition Edge as a cost-effective HMI solution with numerous features; however, we lacked the internal resources to support the diverse operating systems our clients required. While it likely complements the full Ignition system well, it wasn’t justifiable for us. Running an Ignition client might be more straightforward unless you face unstable network connections to your Ignition server. I highly recommend "Buttons and Pots" for this purpose. Their gloves offer a fantastic way to interact with your HMI—operators appreciate their reliability and simplicity without unnecessary features, and they’re easy to replace. When it comes to displaying information, there's a choice between using lamps or an Ignition client setup (think a £100 PC and a £200 monitor, VNC-included). It’s crucial to emphasize the significance of user experience in machine efficiency. Analyzing how operators use the machine and what information they need for specific tasks can bring immense value. For SCADA, considering production metrics and browsing patterns to find correlations is essential. The HMI should be entirely task-oriented. Yes, it's late here, but I wish the company the best of luck with their endeavors.
AJZ inquired: Is the PLC restricted to just one PV5500 per CPU, or does this limitation apply to one PLC per PV5500? Upon further investigation, it appears that both the PanelView Plus 7 and the PanelView 5500 are each confined to a single PLC connection. Additionally, the PanelView Plus 7 supports a maximum of 50 displays (split between 25 replace displays and 25 on-top displays) and can handle up to 500 alarms. For those requiring more than 25 replace displays, alternative solutions might need to be considered.
ASF mentioned: I recently came across "Ignition Edge" and it sparked my interest. After doing a quick online search, I'm intrigued and cautiously optimistic about its possibilities. If anyone here has experience with it, could you please provide a brief overview? To delve deeper, you might consider the "Ignition Edge Panel" for enhanced visualization features. Essentially, it's a streamlined version of Ignition, and my main concern is the 500 tag limit, which seems a bit restrictive; a higher limit may be more practical. However, based on your description, this might still be suitable for your needs. The "Ignition Edge Panel" includes a vision client license for visualization, but you'll need to supply the panel or PC hardware. This option is particularly beneficial if you're looking to operate independently or require a backup in case your network fails. Otherwise, if you already have an unlimited Ignition setup, additional benefits may be limited.
When evaluating the PV+ 7 Standard versus the PV+ 7 Performance, it's essential to consider them individually and ensure that you have the latest information. The PV+ 7 Standard, for instance, now offers support for up to 50 screens and 500 alarms with FTView ME 9.0, compared to its previous capacity of 25 screens and 200 alarms. On the other hand, the Performance models provide enhanced support for multiple controllers and additional displays, though I currently lack specific details on these features.
Paully's5.0 remarked: If you're looking for effective visualization capabilities, the "Ignition Edge Panel" is your go-to choice. Essentially a simplified version of Ignition, my main grievance is its 500-tag limit, which I feel should be expanded. However, based on your requirements, this might be sufficient for your needs. It's important to note that the "Ignition Edge Panel" includes a vision client license for visualization, but you'll still need to procure the panel or PC hardware independently. This option is particularly beneficial if you require a standalone setup or a reliable backup in case of network failures. If you already possess an Ignition unlimited installation, it might not be as necessary.
Thank you, Paully. The main issue is that the SCADA system won't be integrated immediately; it may be a few months delayed. Therefore, standalone control panels are essential for now. If I acquire an Ignition Edge Panel license and later decide to upgrade to the comprehensive Ignition SCADA package, how straightforward would the integration process be with the existing Edge Panel?
Ken Roach advised: Ensure that you’re assessing the PV+ 7 Standard and the PV+7 Performance separately, using the most current information. For instance, the Standard model supports 50 screens and 500 alarms with FTView ME 9.0, an increase from the previous 25/200 support. The Performance models accommodate multiple controllers and additional displays, although I don't have the specific details at hand.
Thanks for the insight, Ken. I’m familiar with the distinctions between these models and their respective limitations. In most scenarios involving standalone HMIs, the Standard model should be adequate - situations warranting the Performance version would likely also merit a SCADA client. Have you gained any experience with the PV5500 series?
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ASF mentioned: "Regarding the use of the device with cold, wet gloves, I don't anticipate the situation being quite as problematic as I initially suggested. I believe that users will generally remove their gloves before interacting with the HMI, or at least dry them off first. The process doesn't require you to submerge your hands in the solution every single cycle before pressing the start button."
Our observations are based on our experiences rather than a lack of information from you. In practice, operators are unlikely to remove their gloves, and if one begins using it with gloves, it's likely that others will follow suit and not remove theirs either.
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ASF announced: "Thanks, Paully. The challenge we're facing is that the SCADA system installation will be delayed by several months. In the interim, we'll need standalone control panels. If I acquire an Ignition Edge Panel license initially, and subsequently upgrade to the full Ignition SCADA package, how straightforward is it to integrate the Edge Panel into the overall SCADA system?"
Expanding on this, it's quite straightforward. The Edge Panels will function as remote tag servers to your central Ignition Gateway, facilitating SCADA development. Although the Edge project remains distinct from the main SCADA project, the developmental process is generally the same. Importing and exporting between the two should pose minimal difficulty.
However, there are management aspects to consider, and using the "Enterprise Administration Module" can help streamline the integration process. If you take this approach, consulting with an Integrator or reaching out to Inductive Automation is advisable to fully grasp the licensing implications for your architectural plan. Edge Panels add complexity due to their design for small, independent systems.
As previously mentioned, it's essential to explore Maple Systems for your needs. Each HMI device they offer serves as an MQTT Publisher and integrates seamlessly with Ignition, functioning effectively as an edge-of-network solution. Mr. Arlen Nippers, co-inventor of the MQTT protocol, collaborated with one of his developers and me about 16 months ago to create the Ignition Driver specifically for Maple Systems. Once completed, integrating a Maple Systems HMI with Ignition became incredibly straightforward and cost-efficient. I can provide a comprehensive PDF guide detailing the process. Feel free to ask, and I'll be happy to locate it and share it with you.
ASF commented: Ignition Edge Click to expand... One important point to consider is that when I last examined Edge, it had a restriction of 500 tags. While this might be sufficient for smaller-scale applications, justifying the use of an HMI for projects of such minimal scope could be challenging.
Paully's5.0 mentioned: Understood, it's actually quite straightforward. Essentially, the "edge" panels would function as remote tag servers for your main Ignition Gateway, thus enabling seamless SCADA development. Although the Edge project will be distinct from your actual SCADA setup, from a development perspective, the process remains quite similar. Importing and exporting data is generally hassle-free. However, you'll need to consider system management, and it would be wise to look into the "Enterprise Administration Module" for smoother integration. If you decide to pursue this approach, I highly recommend consulting with an Integrator or directly reaching out to Inductive Automation to thoroughly grasp the licensing aspects in relation to your system architecture and roadmap. Edge Panels add complexity since they are designed for smaller, standalone systems. [Click to read more.] Thanks for the insights! I'll connect with IA for more information. VAN noted: Previously, when I evaluated Edge, there was a cap of 500 tags. While suitable for minimal setups, I find it difficult to justify a Human Machine Interface (HMI) for such a limited scale. [Click to read more.] Do you know if a User-Defined Type (UDT) or an Add-On Instruction (AOI) is counted as a single tag? All my motors, drives, and valves are encapsulated within one AOI or UDT, so if only the UDT/AOI itself is considered a tag, generally, the 500-tag limit should be sufficient. damica1 commented: As mentioned earlier, examining Maple System would be beneficial. Each HMI they offer acts as an MQTT Publisher, seamlessly integrating with Ignition as an edge-of-network device. Mr. Arlen Nippers, the MQTT protocol co-inventor, and one of his programmers collaborated with me about 16 months ago in developing the Ignition Driver for Maple System. Once the driver was completed, using a Maple System HMI with Ignition became incredibly straightforward and economically efficient. I can provide a comprehensive PDF guide detailing the process—just ask, and I'll be happy to share! [Click to read more.] Thanks, VAN, that may be an insightful read! I have experience with a Maple HMI, but it's been around 5-10 years since then. I'm curious about their current advancements.
OkiePC mentioned: Crimson 3.1 closely resembles version 3.0, with the key difference being the absence of an emulator. This latest version introduces enhanced visuals, including flashy graphics and textures. Click to learn more... Remember the improved web server—this is a significant upgrade... Regarding the emulator's removal, it struggled with performance on 64-bit operating systems, making support and maintenance quite challenging. Efforts are underway to develop a new solution. Stay tuned for updates!
MikeGranby emphasized the importance of the enhanced web server, labeling it as a significant upgrade. The issue with the previous emulator lay in its unreliable performance on 64-bit operating systems, which made it difficult to support and maintain. Efforts are underway to introduce a new replacement—stay tuned for updates. This is fantastic news! I heavily rely on the emulator despite its quirks, even developing in version 3.0 for CR series or Graphite hardware before transitioning to 3.1, to perfect the communication and visual elements. I haven't yet utilized the upgraded web server, as my older Graphite applications still run on version 3.0, and the only CR series projects I've worked on are the 1000 series, which do not support it. I've noticed that the latest build includes an OPC-UA server; however, documentation is sparse. I anticipate a comprehensive guide will be available soon.
You'll find a detailed chapter on the OPC-UA server within the manual. Additionally, several videos are available on Red Lion's official YouTube channel, including one linked at [1] below. I also created an informative video, which can be accessed via the link at [2].
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TL61BHLOJQ
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzia7E1rySA
Please Note: I've noticed that the C3.1 manual on Red Lion's website is outdated and lacks this crucial chapter. However, the version included with the software is accurate. I have reached out to them to request an update on their site, and I anticipate this will be resolved shortly.
ASF commented: "Do you know if a User-Defined Type (UDT) or an Add-On Instruction (AOI) is considered as one single tag in programming? In my case, all of my motors, drives, valves, and similar components are encapsulated within a UDT or AOI. If the UDT/AOI itself indeed counts as merely one tag, managing with 500 tags might be feasible for the most part." To elaborate, I once inquired about this, and essentially, data types like DINT, INT, and BOOL each account for a single tag. Hence, while you might utilize a DINT from DINT.0 to DINT.31 as one tag (although this usage might not be officially supported anymore), an array consisting of 32 booleans, BOOL[32], would result in 32 individual tags. It's important to note that arrays, UDTs, or AOIs cannot bypass the 500-tag limitation. This restriction was quite significant when the platform initially launched as a primary HMI solution.
If you're exploring optimal HMI programming and wondering how tag limits can affect your setup, understanding these nuances is crucial. Stay updated on any changes, as developments in this field could influence your approach significantly.
Standardizing on Human-Machine Interfaces (HMIs) becomes challenging when upgrading to a 600-tag machine necessitates a £12k investment for the full Ignition suite. While you might employ creative methods to reduce the tag count, such approaches aren't representative of optimal engineering practices. In our case, we aimed to have a Programmable Logic Controller (PLC) monitor product status on a conveyor system, requiring around 500 tags just for that task. Moreover, with the advent of smart machines, each sensor can transmit approximately 50 tags via IO-Link—including serial number, production date, temperature, and cycle count—which effectively restrains you to deploying just eight sensors per machine. Opting for a less sophisticated machine begs the question: why consider Ignition at all if it negates the benefits of modern, data-rich environments?
Thank you for sharing the information. I've decided to opt for Red Lion for our HMI solutions. While Ignition will continue to serve as our primary SCADA software, I believe that utilizing Edge for standalone HMIs might not be the most efficient approach.