Parky mentioned that the analog inputs/outputs range from 0-10V. Before posting, it might have been beneficial to do a Google search. By searching the PLC model on Google images, a pinout diagram was found showing 2 pins for PWM or DAC signals. This information is crucial for driving a motor at variable speeds, converting 0-10V to 0-24V. Consider using a simple MOSFET circuit to control the fan, as the motor may not provide torque at low voltages. It is essential to run the motor at its rated voltage with sufficient current to initiate movement. Keep in mind that the analog outputs are not isolated, so caution is necessary to prevent damage. Thank you for sharing this valuable information.
The relay model does not support PWM, although some transistor outputs may allow for a form of PWM. However, it is unlikely that the clone will be able to utilize this feature, as only the authentic FX3 is capable of it. There are several distinctions between the genuine Fx series and its clones. I will ask a friend who owns one to test the transistor output model to determine if PWM functionality is possible. It appears that PWM function can be used with transistor outputs but not with relay outputs.
One way to control the speed of a motor is by using the bank of outputs in a basic manner. Begin by utilizing the first output, then pass the power through 5 power resistors with equal resistance to achieve the desired slower speed. Subsequently, utilize the next 5 outputs to gradually bypass one resistor each. Y0 + 5 resistors results in a very slow speed, while Y1 + 4 resistors gives a slower speed, Y2 + 3 resistors provides a medium speed, Y3 + 2 resistors offers a medium-high speed, and Y4 + 1 resistor equals a high speed. Finally, Y5 with 0 resistors gives a very high speed.
It is important to note that if multiple inputs are turned on simultaneously, the higher speed will take precedence. If fewer than 6 speeds are required, adjustments can be made by reducing the number of outputs and increasing the value of resistors. Additionally, it is recommended to include one more resistor that connects to DC COM to ensure a proper voltage division. Consider using relay outputs and directing the divided voltage into each relay before powering the motor through the COM connection.
In order to control the speed of a fan, you can utilize a bank of outputs in a simple yet effective manner. Begin by using the first output, then pass the power through 5 power resistors of equal resistance to achieve the desired slow speed. Each subsequent output can then bypass one resistor, with Y0 + 5 resistors resulting in a CREEPY speed, Y1 + 4 resistors in a SLOW speed, Y2 + 3 resistors in a MEDIUM speed, Y3 + 2 resistors in a MED HIGH speed, Y4 + 1 resistor in a HIGH speed, and Y5 with 0 resistors in a HI HIGH speed. Keep in mind that activating multiple inputs simultaneously will result in the highest speed prevailing. If fewer than 6 speeds are needed, adjust the number of outputs and increase the resistance value of the resistors. Additionally, consider adding one more resistor to the DC COM to function as a proper voltage divider. Relay outputs may also be a more suitable option, allowing the divided voltage to pass through each relay before reaching the motor. This method can help manage fan speed for various purposes, such as reducing power consumption.
Tinine pointed out that reducing the fan speed to lower power consumption may not be effective when using resistors. He wants to connect a 24V/0.2A DC fan, but is skeptical about the potential energy savings. Unless the fan is powered by D alkaline batteries, the reduction in power consumption will likely have minimal impact on the electric bill compared to using a 24V power supply.
To further elaborate on Tinine's concept, one can implement a 1R,2R ladder network to achieve multiple outputs, thus enabling a wide range of speed options. This method can result in 63 different speeds. For more information on how this can be achieved, you can refer to the resources provided here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor_ladder#Analog-to-digital_conversion and https://www.best-microcontroller-projects.com/R-2R-ladder.html?utm_content=cmp-true.
Parky replied, expanding on TInine's comment. He stated that he is not one to use PWM, as he identifies more as a PWM-er like Craig.
It appears that the original poster is using a relay output programmable logic controller (PLC), which means that the PWM instruction is not compatible. I am in the same boat as well.
Parky and I both agree that based on the posts, the original poster (OP) is using a relay output programmable logic controller (PLC), which means that the PWM instruction will not be effective. In this case, it would be better to use transistor outputs to drive external relays, as needed. This approach can provide a more suitable solution for the situation.
Parky mentioned that there is no PWM functionality available on the relay model. However, what is the purpose of DA0 & DA1? Do these pins provide PWM signals or have a different function altogether? Some transistor outputs may support a form of PWM. It is known that transistors can be used for PWM based on the switching speed of the MOSFET. However, implementing PWM on mechanical relays or SSRs is not convenient.
It is speculated that only the authentic FX3 controller board is capable of utilizing certain instructions, while clones may lack this capability. Siemens PLCs are known for utilizing high-performance chips like SoC or ASICs, rather than microcontrollers. There are notable distinctions between the genuine Fx range and the cloned versions.
A possible solution could be to test the transistor output model with a friend's board to determine if PWM functionality is feasible. It seems that using PWM with transistor outputs is achievable, but not with relay outputs. Despite the challenges with relay outputs, PWM is viable with pins directly connected to the MCU.
Parky pointed out that the original poster (OP) is using a relay output programmable logic controller (PLC), which means that the PWM instruction may not be effective for control. The OP chose the relay model to handle AC 220V loads, although a 24V DC fan was used as an example. It was discovered that the board has additional output pins that are not connected to the relays, allowing for their use as digital outputs.
Tinine suggested utilizing transistor outputs and driving external relays via transistors when necessary. Craig agreed, noting that it is a viable option.
The DA0 and DA1 outputs on FX devices are analog outputs, supporting either 0-20mA or 0-10V. While there is no PWM output available, the FX can utilize some of the outputs as PWM outputs with the use of transistor units. By incorporating a transistor output unit, you have the option of using relays to drive higher voltage levels efficiently.
In the world of industrial automation, it's important to note that DA0 & DA1 serve as analogue outputs, supporting ranges of 0-20mA or 0-10V. While there may not be a PWM output, the FX model does utilize some outputs for PWM functionality. It's crucial to use a transistor-type output unit for this purpose. If your setup includes a transistor output unit, you have the option to employ relays for handling higher voltages effectively. For more insights on this topic, refer to post #6 by Craig.
In reference to comment #16, these are likely imitations of the popular Mitsubishi FX PLC range, possibly produced in makeshift workshops in Southeast Asia. These knock-off versions lack official approval and may have limitations that hinder their functionality. For instance, genuine FX3U models allow for customizable PLC parameters like retentive areas, while these clones are restricted to default settings. Additionally, compatibility with Expansion I/O or add-on intelligent cards may be limited, and certain features may not work properly. The authentic FX0-3U models typically have a 422 programming port, whereas many clones are equipped with only a 232 port. The baud rate on genuine FX3 PLCs defaults to 9600 but can be adjusted up to 115kb in the programming environment; however, the observed clones are stuck at 19200 and cannot be changed. It's crucial to consider that quality often comes at a price, as many bargain electronics from Asia tend to fail within a year. A personal anecdote highlights this issue, as a friend experienced multiple failures with cheap gadgets like mini cameras purchased for in-car recording and underwater filming. The recurring problem of these devices appearing operational but failing to record raises suspicions about their longevity and quality.
There is a significant amount of uncertainty surrounding your desired actions. The small fan may cease functioning if the voltage is reduced, as it operates differently than a typical DC motor, utilizing a small oscillator that may cease working if the voltage is insufficient. It is recommended to test the fan using a variable power supply to observe the effects of lowering the voltage. Additionally, the FX clone may not support certain special instructions found in the original FX, such as generating PWM pulses with transistor outputs.
Tinine pointed out in post #6 by Craig that sparked further interest. An intriguing board has been discovered that can convert variable DC voltage to a PWM signal. This has piqued curiosity about the ability to engage with a microcontroller for additional control functions.
Looking for some fun? Consider picking up one of these Analog inputs with numerous PWM outputs, 2 X 12bit DACs, and more. With around 47 I/O options, this device is perfect for DIY projects. If you opt for the display, it features a speedy 16bit parallel interface. Setting it up is a breeze - just download the .bin firmware from the provided zip file. This device runs a BASIC interpreter at a rate of close to ~100,000 lines/sec, making it easy to use for beginners. Find the manual on my Dropbox for more information.
Tinine suggested that for a fun project, one could utilize Analog inputs, PWM outputs, 2 X 12bit DACs, and 47 I/Os with a microcontroller. Additionally, incorporating a display with a 16bit parallel interface can enhance the project significantly. Having worked extensively with microcontrollers, particularly Arduino, ESP, and STM32 boards, I decided to explore projects involving PLCs this semester. PLCs are commonly used in industrial and commercial settings, operating at a standard digital input/output voltage level of 24V. Signal conditioning, which I encountered during a visit to a cement factory, involves adjusting voltage signals from various sensors to align with the 24V scope. PLCs mainly deal with analog/digital signals rather than PWM or other serial signals, but modules supporting serial communication can be easily integrated. By loading the provided .bin firmware onto the STM32 board, one can quickly start working on projects. Special thanks to Craig for the assistance in navigating the firmware and board manual.
Life mentioned the presence of uncertainty in your desired course of action. It is possible that the small fan may cease to function if the voltage is reduced, as it operates differently from a standard DC motor with a small oscillator that may fail to operate if the voltage is inadequate. To investigate this further, it is recommended to test the fan using a variable power supply to observe the effects of lowering the voltage.
I am planning to conduct this testing as part of a training project for students, designed to serve educational purposes. It is worth noting that certain specialized instructions found in the original FX may not work on this FX clone, such as the one responsible for generating PWM pulses with transistor outputs.
If you are wondering why these instructions do not function, it may be due to the fact that the original FX utilizes an stm32 chip, which differs from the controller used in this clone. To find a comprehensive list of compatible instructions, it is advisable to seek out a reliable source for further information.
Several Programmable Logic Controllers (PLC's) are capable of Pulse Width Modulation (PWM), such as the FX3U. However, this feature is only available on the transistor output type, as relays are not fast enough to support it. It is uncertain whether clones can execute this instruction, as some may have limitations that prevent it from functioning properly. In some cases, the in-built software of clones may not fully interpret the Mitsubishi code, leading to a lack of functionality.
If you are looking to use a PLC, you can either utilize a DC controller board that operates on a 0-10v input or follow the ladder network as previously demonstrated. One option is to use a 0-10v to PWM converter in conjunction with a PWM DC motor control board. Alternatively, you could consider obtaining a DC controller board with a potentiometer and constructing an interface for a 0-10v connection to replace the standard potentiometer. Check out this option on Amazon: [Link to product].
It has been a while since I last attempted a project like this. I utilized a controller with a potentiometer as seen on https://www.amazon.com/Controller-Regulator-Potentiometer-Overload-Protector/dp/B07D281HXS, but decided to replace the 12vdc potentiometer with the PLC output which resulted in satisfactory performance. Although I intended to construct a new training device, I never completed the project.
- 26-10-2024
- geniusintraining
Parky mentioned in post #16 that these products are likely imitations of the Mitsubishi FX range, possibly manufactured in Southeast Asian makeshift factories. These unauthorized replicas may not meet quality standards or have official approval.
These clones may resemble the originals outwardly, but often lack the same programming configurations and controller chips. While some may imitate the original's PCB design and functions, they might not offer the same performance.
Unless the original technology is open source, others may replicate the programming setup and hardware specs to create clones with varying features. However, without experience in PLCs, like Siemens being a leader in the field, it's challenging to discern the differences among brands.
For example, genuine FX3U PLCs allow for adjustment in parameters like retentive areas, while clones typically do not offer this flexibility. Additionally, expansion I/O or intelligent cards may not be compatible with these clones, and certain functions may be limited or dysfunctional.
While the students ordered a clone, it's important to note that genuine FX0-3U models have a 422 programming port, whereas most clones only have a 232 port. Genuine FX3 models default to a baud rate of 9600, while clones may only operate at 19200 and cannot be adjusted.
This discrepancy raises concerns about compatibility with the official Mitsubishi programming IDE, as the software may not recognize the clone device.
Cheap electronics from Asia often have a reputation for failing after a short period, suggesting a planned obsolescence approach to their design. A friend's experience with multiple faulty mini cameras within a year further highlights concerns about the longevity and quality of these products.
While purchasing various clones from platforms like AliExpress, including Arduino and STM32 boards, it's important to note that not all clones perform equally. Varying communication methods, such as using a microcontroller or USB/UART converters, can impact the functionality of these devices.
eagl1 inquired about the compatibility of a clone controller with a Mitsubishi FX, specifically asking if the original uses an STM32 chip or a different controller. They also inquired about accessing all instructions and sources for information. Mitsubishi FX features high-speed instructions that operate separately from the scan, including direct encoder inputs and PWM outputs. The clone controller may not offer these capabilities. The processor used by Mitsubishi and other brands is not a concern. The Mitsubishi programming manual can be easily downloaded from the internet for reference.
According to lfe, the Mitsubishi FX PLC offers high-speed instructions that can operate independently of the scanning process, including features like direct encoder inputs and PWM output. It appears that these unique capabilities may not be present in the clone version of the PLC. The clone, equipped with an STM32 chip, can be programmed to utilize interrupt-driven input/output pins for independent scanning and output functions. This approach requires the CPU to pause its current task to handle interrupt requests before resuming its previous operations. Despite the differences, one programmer successfully reverse engineered the clone PLC to work with Arduino, as detailed in this article: https://www.hackster.io/galopago/repurposing-a-plc-clone-for-use-with-arduino-2fb5e0. While the processor used in the Mitsubishi PLC remains unknown to the writer, Mitsubishi programming manuals can be easily accessed online for further guidance. Exploring the world of PLC programming has been a new and intriguing experience, especially compared to working with microcontrollers and programming eBooks. Despite a lack of information on the specific chip used in Mitsubishi PLCs, the technical details provided in the manuals are still valuable resources for avid learners.
A user named geniusintraining shared their experience of modifying a potentiometer with a 12vdc output from a PLC using a controller regulator and overload protector from Amazon. Although they didn't complete the project, they found Tinine's suggestion in post #6 helpful. Can this setup be controlled manually or with a controller? The converter mentioned seems to be the solution for PWM signal needs.
Parky mentioned that while many PLCs are capable of PWM, the FX3U specifically only allows for it on transistor output types as relays are not fast enough. However, there are alternatives such as MOSFET switches or custom boards that replicate PLC functions using microcontrollers and power switches like MOSFETs. Despite not having the advanced features of Siemens PLCs, Parky expressed interest in maximizing the potential of the FX3u clone and potentially exploring cheaper Siemens PLCs with network control capabilities for future projects.
Parky highlighted the importance of choosing a PLC with the necessary functionality for the task at hand, recommending DC controller boards that operate on a 0-10v input or utilizing ladder networks for programming. The programming process will commence once the controller is received, utilizing dedicated software initially and possibly transitioning to Arduino IDE in the future. Additionally, a 0-10v to PWM converter paired with a PWM DC motor control board was suggested for controlling a 24V DC fan's speed and current draw.
In conclusion, Parky emphasized the significance of selecting the right tools and programming methods to achieve the desired outcome in the realm of PLC technology.
Hello, I recently purchased a module from Aliexpress and spent some time learning how to use it. I was able to successfully operate it without connecting it to a PLC initially. My next step is to integrate it with the PLC, focusing on achieving full speed, zero speed, and kick-off speed functionalities.
This module offers two output options: NPN, which can provide a 5V or 24V output signal, and PNP, which only outputs a 5V signal. Surprisingly, I found that the NPN configuration operated at full capacity with 0V and completely turned off with 10V, contrary to my initial belief that it required a positive signal to function properly.